08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

If you're looking for a place to direct your vehicular thoughts, you've found it.

Moderator: Monochrome

Post Reply
User avatar
Jeff V.
Posts: 25416
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:36 pm

08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Jeff V. »

Well, we're down just over a month remaining before the ultimate fanboy car launches at the Tokyo motor show in October. I figured it'd be fun to go over what we know, and speculate about what we don't. I'm sure we can find some places to get a few jabs in at Nissan and the fanboy network as well.

After 6 years, it bloody well better be worth the wait.

Image

What we know:

Powertrain

Twin turbo V6, as shown when a spy scored underhood shots during testing at Laguna Seca. There has been no confirmation of the rumors that the VK series V8 would be used in the American market car. Given that they were testing the V6 at Laguna Seca, I'd say that just about kills the V8 rumor.

Paddle shifters were also spotted in the Laguna Seca car. The rumor mill has been buzzing about a 7-speed trans. Nobody knows, and further, nobody knows if it's a true automated manual, or just a tap-shift automatic.

A next-gen intelligent AWD system is assumed, but no facts exist.

Body

The production car is virtually identical to the GTR Proto shown at the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show.

Interior

We know pretty much nothing

Suspension

Again, we know pretty much nothing. They have been using a Porsche 911 Turbo as a tag-along benchmark car, so expect something pretty special here. Brakes appear to be a 6-piston front, 4-piston rear setup. I seem to remember hearing a rumor that Lotus was tapped to assist with suspension tuning.

Price

Nothing solid


Gatecrasher's speculation

Power will be over 425, but under 500. That puts it smack in the middle of Corvette, M3 and Porsche territory, all stated competitors. It may have a temporary overboost feature similar to Porsche's Sport Chrono package.

Tranny will be a 6-speed paddle shift auto, with a conventional 6-speed manual as an option.

The driveline will have every electronic nanny currently known to automotive science, probably with some very creative Japanese acronyms attached. I expect them to resurrect the ATTESA name for marketing reasons. Maybe something very Japanese sounding like Super ATTESA NEO :p

Interior will probably be nice, but don't expect anything too much more uplevel or exotic than is currently available on the new G37 coupe. Hopefully they'll offer a good sport seat, but with our luck, it'll be for Japan only.

Suspension will be electronically controlled and adjustable just like the driveline.

Any carbon on the body will likely be for show. They're going to shoot their wad on gadgets and not keeping the weight down. I fully expect this thing to be a pig, on the order of 3700lbs or more. This is going to be its single greatest liability IMHO.

Last but not least, the price. I'm going to peg $70,000 minimum. I just do not see any way for Nissan to bring this much technology to market for anything less. It'll probably climb into the 80s or more depending on options and whether or not they offer something like a V-Spec model.

I fully believe Nissan will hit their target of similar performance to the Porsche 911 Turbo. That said, this car is not going to sell well. If Nissan is smart, they'll keep their sales expectations modest. My money says less than 5000 units for North America, less than 10,000 units annually world wide. It's going to be very tough to convince people with this kind of money to spend $70k or more at a Nissan dealership where people are getting their Sentras and Altimas bought and serviced. Chevy can get away with this because they have 54 years of history behind the Corvette. Nissan doesn't, at least not outside of Japan. On that note, once you strip away the fanboys and nutswingers, I have my doubts that a gadget laden techno-boat will sell in significant numbers without having a Porsche badge on the front of it.

The market has changed drastically since the R34 went out of production. This car will not live up to the Godzilla name its ancestors had. For proof, you need look no farther than the last round of whiz bang techno cars to come out of Japan, and see what happened to them.

Last but not least, it's going to get its ass kicked by a light weight, torque laden, pushrod, leaf sprung Chevy :D
I think about all the things we could have done, all the miracles we could have achieved, if we were all just a little bit better than it turns out we are.
--Naomi Nagata
User avatar
Hannibalzero
Posts: 20379
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: NoVA
Contact:

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Hannibalzero »

My money is on:

450-465 hp V6
6 speed on both trannies
Price is going to peak up to $80k for most models sold
Off track and on the street, they will not be able to compete with the lighter porsche 911.
Asian teenagers all over the country will go nuts.
BAWC
Accept No Substitutes
Monochrome edited my sig. ....and it was good.
JagdStealth
Posts: 11702
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: San Diego, TEXAFORNIA!

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by JagdStealth »

Nissan will hopefully keep it lighter than 3700+ lbs, I think they can get it sub 3500lbs. Out of all of the manufacturers their, Nissan is the one with a true racing history. Toyota is off and on, Mitsubishi has only been successful in Rally (and only the last decade or so), and Honda can't seem to get into anything other than F1. Nissan, on the other hand, has been making real race cars since the 60s.

I expect the interior to be more 350Z quality than G37...save weight and keep costs down. That said, 350Z quality is nothing special at all...

This will be a car for people who hate American cars, but can't afford something from Germany and are scared of the maintenance costs associated with our Kraut friends.
User avatar
Jeff V.
Posts: 25416
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:36 pm

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Jeff V. »

Nissan will hopefully keep it lighter than 3700+ lbs, I think they can get it sub 3500lbs.
I really have a hard time believing that. A C6 coupe is around 3300, and that doesn't have half the bells and whistles of a GTR. How much does a G35 or G37 weigh? A VR4 was 3800, and didn't include the safety and convenience features expected in a modern, high end car.

I compare it more to the current Shelby GT500 at around 3700lbs, and that car doesn't have an electronic AWD system to weigh it down. If they focus on composites and aluminum and magnesium like GM did for the C6Z, I just can't see how they can do that AND include the high end technology, yet still get it in under 80k.
I think about all the things we could have done, all the miracles we could have achieved, if we were all just a little bit better than it turns out we are.
--Naomi Nagata
User avatar
Vitamin A
Posts: 2705
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: camp lejuene nc

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Vitamin A »

My money is on Gate's predictions. He seems fairly spot on
Image
JagdStealth
Posts: 11702
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: San Diego, TEXAFORNIA!

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by JagdStealth »

I don't think it will have that much high end technology other than the AWD system. Adjustable suspension and the like doesn't add that much weight, especially with todays technology.

I think they will do away with a lot of the luxury found in the G37 to make room for other toys. The G37c weighs in at just over 3600lbs and that's with the fancy AWS setup that changes suspension geometry and crap too. If they get rid of the heavy leather, excessive sound deadening, etc. I think they can trim the weight down, then some lighter weight body components, engine parts, wheels, etc. and you can make a big difference. Just ditching some overly comfortable seats in the G to something more sport oriented can save 75lbs
User avatar
Chris GTO TT
Posts: 15923
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: Sacramento

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Chris GTO TT »

The original claims on curb weight of the R34 was 3600lbs so getting under that might be pretty difficult. And if they benchmarked the 911 Turbo for handling then the car might suck on the track :eek:
User avatar
Macky
Posts: 4754
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:56 am
Location: Cougartown, CA

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Macky »

i think Nissan will overprice this car and sell in meager quantities.

and as far as racing goes, I doubt anyone whould spend nearly $70K on a car just to strip it down and go racing. hell for that money Id go for a Z06 hands down. all the tech toys in the GTR wont fare so well at the track - as most of those are pretty much optimized for street use. and weight is another thing - im pretty sure that thing will weigh like a tank.

Z06 > GTR. thats my speculation/prediction. for the money, the sensible choice would be the Z06.
Macky wrote:Trophy gf's are kind of like the Stanley Cup. You may have it now, but more than likely someone else will have it next year. Even if you were to get it back later, just think of all the random people who have kissed it since you had it last.
Image
'13 Evolution MR
'12 Lancer Sportback
JagdStealth
Posts: 11702
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: San Diego, TEXAFORNIA!

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by JagdStealth »

The 350Z base model weighs in at 3189 and the G37c 3616, so I would think we could get something in between the two since those are the two extremes of the car we are looking at.
User avatar
Chris GTO TT
Posts: 15923
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: Sacramento

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Chris GTO TT »

yes but the FM platform is very heavy as it has to under pin several cars including the FX. Its always been the weakness of that platform.
User avatar
Vitamin A
Posts: 2705
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: camp lejuene nc

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Vitamin A »

Hey, look who it is. What's going on Chris?
Image
User avatar
Chris GTO TT
Posts: 15923
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: Sacramento

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Chris GTO TT »

[quote=""Vitamin A""]Hey, look who it is. What's going on Chris?[/quote]

Nothing just seeing how much trouble i can stir up over here :D
User avatar
Jeff V.
Posts: 25416
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:36 pm

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Jeff V. »

I don't think it will have that much high end technology other than the AWD system. Adjustable suspension and the like doesn't add that much weight, especially with todays technology.
An intercooled twin turbo system isn't exactly light. Especially when you take into account the smog hardware required to meet current and future emissions regulations. There's also rumors of electromagnetic anti-lag for this car. If they add that, it's only more weight.
I think about all the things we could have done, all the miracles we could have achieved, if we were all just a little bit better than it turns out we are.
--Naomi Nagata
User avatar
Hannibalzero
Posts: 20379
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: NoVA
Contact:

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Hannibalzero »

I think Gate's initial estimate of 3700+ lbs is going to be fairly accurate. This car needs to far out-class the 350z, in price, luxury, and performance. Expect Nissan to throw in a lot of extra amenities.

The GTR can't just have improvements in power and handling - Nissan would have turbo charged the Z and stiffened the suspension if that were the case. Nissan is making the GTR to build their brand (similar to why the Viper and the Ford GT we made). If its going to be Nissan's flagship car, at the rumored price it will need to offer a lot more than just power; chevy has them beat in that market. I expect electronic suspension, electronic AWD, and a quality luxury interior. Their making this car to showcase their technology, and that is what will ultimately weight them down.
BAWC
Accept No Substitutes
Monochrome edited my sig. ....and it was good.
JagdStealth
Posts: 11702
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: San Diego, TEXAFORNIA!

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by JagdStealth »

Unfortunate for them since their competition will be significantly lighter and significantly faster if it's less than 500HP and 3700+ lbs :p
User avatar
VR4Rob
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:46 am
Location: Rocket City, AL
Contact:

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by VR4Rob »

It's in a really tough segment of the market, so it better be a really well peforming car. Looks wise I give it a 5.5/10. It certainly isn't more attractive than any of it's competition.
User avatar
Hannibalzero
Posts: 20379
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:14 pm
Location: NoVA
Contact:

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Hannibalzero »

[quote=""VR4Rob""]It's in a really tough segment of the market, so it better be a really well peforming car. Looks wise I give it a 5.5/10. It certainly isn't more attractive than any of it's competition.[/quote]

That's one of the reasons why I think Nissan is going to their money and energey into technology, rather than pure performance. I think the GTR is going to showcase thier R&D as more of a touring or luxury sports car.
BAWC
Accept No Substitutes
Monochrome edited my sig. ....and it was good.
User avatar
VR4Rob
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:46 am
Location: Rocket City, AL
Contact:

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by VR4Rob »

[quote=""Hannibalzero""]That's one of the reasons why I think Nissan is going to their money and energey into technology, rather than pure performance. I think the GTR is going to showcase thier R&D as more of a touring or luxury sports car.[/quote]

Surely they could do this in a little... different way. If they sold a 400ish horsepower twin turbo 350Z and priced it around 42-45K it would sell like crazy and they could still have enough wiggle room with the price to put some cool stuff in it. I mean, how much would it really cost Nissan to develop a competent, boost friendly VQ series motor to put in the already solid 350Z :d ontknow:
User avatar
Chris GTO TT
Posts: 15923
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: Sacramento

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by Chris GTO TT »

[quote=""VR4Rob""]Surely they could do this in a little... different way. If they sold a 400ish horsepower twin turbo 350Z and priced it around 42-45K it would sell like crazy and they could still have enough wiggle room with the price to put some cool stuff in it. I mean, how much would it really cost Nissan to develop a competent, boost friendly VQ series motor to put in the already solid 350Z :d ontknow:[/quote]

yeah thats possible however you also run into issues with Trans, driveline, diff, axles, wheels and tires. Not to mention stress on the chassis and weight distribution.
User avatar
VR4Rob
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:46 am
Location: Rocket City, AL
Contact:

Re: 08/09 Nissan GTR launch next month. Speculation and banter

Post by VR4Rob »

[quote=""Chris GTO TT""]yeah thats possible however you also run into issues with Trans, driveline, diff, axles, wheels and tires. Not to mention stress on the chassis and weight distribution.[/quote]

Well yes, that's a given. I guess I just will always think it's such a shame that the 350Z was never offered in a turbo version. It's part of the essence of what Z cars truely are :(
Post Reply