BAWC Forums

[quote=""Monochrome""]Never heard of it before.

Wonder if it could be adapted to cars.[/quote]

It can be. That is the only way the VW's will pass emissions. But they didn't want the added costs of the system. Now, it's way more expensive to try to adapt a new system to their current car dilemma.

So I have some experience with this. Our new fire trucks have it and it requires a burn off. Let me just say that it has messed up more than anyone wants to count on our new medical truck.


Coop

DEF or Urea has been around for quite some time now. All part of Tier IV regulations. Over the road trucks as well as larger PU's were the first Diesels to get hit. Now the construction industry is falling in line with all the large equipment.

[quote=""Hans_GZP""]It can be. That is the only way the VW's will pass emissions. But they didn't want the added costs of the system. Now, it's way more expensive to try to adapt a new system to their current car dilemma.[/quote]

Was thinking more along the lines of a fluid sprayer setup for the exhaust in gasoline cars so we wouldn't be forced to keep using cats.

[quote=""DCIV""]So I have some experience with this. Our new fire trucks have it and it requires a burn off. Let me just say that it has messed up more than anyone wants to count on our new medical truck.


Coop[/quote]

How so? Just curious.

Greg wrote:Was thinking more along the lines of a fluid sprayer setup for the exhaust in gasoline cars so we wouldn't be forced to keep using cats.

DEF does not replace the cat. Again, if the manufacturers could get rid of expensive cats they would.




They're not putting them in because some outdated law says "thou shalt install catalysts". They're doing it because there is no other way to meet emissions targets.

[quote=""Monochrome""]How so? Just curious.[/quote]

the burn off happens when its running, thats fine for OTR trucks but when you put it in a truck that runs much like you or I would drive it never stays running long enough to go into its cycle and when you interrupt it then it just messes up things. Well what are you suppose to do, stay there with? Like a bad turbo timer that you have to turn off? They make it sound like its not a problem but we have had nothing but problems.


Coop

Question regarding that. I notice that our local fire station (tiny place, they are not exactly busy hah) every now and then will leave one truck sitting outside with the engine running. Like they are burning through diesel on purpose. Think it might be because of his?

[quote=""alienviking""]Question regarding that. I notice that our local fire station (tiny place, they are not exactly busy hah) every now and then will leave one truck sitting outside with the engine running. Like they are burning through diesel on purpose. Think it might be because of his?[/quote]

There are a couple reasons.

If its below freezing and they have to have their engine outside then they need to leave it running to keep the pump moving water so it doesnt freeze.

Our fire dept also says we have to let our turbos cool down for 1 min and we can't leave it hooked up to the vent while doing so.

They need to be checked, every morning, so its pulled out and put through its paces.

Lastly, this easily could be the case regarding the fluid.


Coop

Cool thanks. They seem to be doing it year around and both the two engines and the med truck are fairly new.

[quote=""DCIV""]the burn off happens when its running, thats fine for OTR trucks but when you put it in a truck that runs much like you or I would drive it never stays running long enough to go into its cycle and when you interrupt it then it just messes up things. Well what are you suppose to do, stay there with? Like a bad turbo timer that you have to turn off? They make it sound like its not a problem but we have had nothing but problems.


Coop[/quote]

Ah I see.

Easy fix would be some kind of auto shut off like a turbo timer. Obviously it would need some kind of manual kill if it's really not a good time to keep the truck running but not a difficult solution.

[quote=""Monochrome""]Ah I see.

Easy fix would be some kind of auto shut off like a turbo timer. Obviously it would need some kind of manual kill if it's really not a good time to keep the truck running but not a difficult solution.[/quote]

and if you are like most people who have new vehicles and want to park them in a garage?

The guy who came and told us about it told us that the air out of the tail pipe was cleaner than the air taking in......I really wanted to throw something at him.


Coop

[quote=""alienviking""]Question regarding that. I notice that our local fire station (tiny place, they are not exactly busy hah) every now and then will leave one truck sitting outside with the engine running. Like they are burning through diesel on purpose. Think it might be because of his?[/quote]

They are likely letting it go through it "Regeneration" or Re-gen. When the soot particulates build up enough in the Diesel Particulate Filter (measured via back-pressure) the ECU automatically triggers a regeneration cycle. This can take 15 min up to an hour in some cases. The regeneration is caused by dosing diesel either on the exhaust stroke of each cylinder, or in the exhaust before the DFP-->going through a catalyst (much like your Cat) creating high amounts of heat that directly bombard the DPF causing most all of the soot to burn off. The other way is via spark plugs and a virtual diesel flame thrower directly in front of the DPF. Both work, but the latter is more cumbersome.

DEF or Urea is utilized in a completely separate system. Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR). It ties in just after the DPF. Its only purpose is to burn off the last bits of nitrous oxides that cannot be processed in the DPF. It literately takes the last little percentage of pollution and turns it into clean air/water/co2.

Interesting.. thanks!

Also, you do not want to interrupt a Regeneration cycle while its running. Doing so causes the DPF to get more full and becomes that much harder to "burn off", reducing your DPF's life. If pushed too far out it can quickly damage or destroy a DPF.

[quote=""DCIV""]and if you are like most people who have new vehicles and want to park them in a garage? [/quote]

Yeah that's what I'm referring to about the manual shut off. Literally the same adjustments you make when you have a turbo timer installed.

[quote=""alienviking""]Interesting.. thanks![/quote]

Yes indeed! Thank you guys.

I'm more of a diesel noob than I thought. Glad this all came up before I went out and just threw the $$ down on a truck.

[quote=""Monochrome""]Yeah that's what I'm referring to about the manual shut off. Literally the same adjustments you make when you have a turbo timer installed.[/quote]

You should never run those thing indoor during the process, its a WHOLE heck of a lot more than an idling car as far as exhaust gas goes.

The whole thing sucks and is stupid.


Coop

[quote=""DCIV""]You should never run those thing indoor during the process, its a WHOLE heck of a lot more than an idling car as far as exhaust gas goes.

The whole thing sucks and is stupid.


Coop[/quote]

Yes, on construction equipment the machine throttles up quite high in RPMs to facilitate the burn off. It gets so loud that it can sound like a steam engines whistle. With a car though, I foresee them waiting until you are moving to start the burn. Keep in mind smaller engines are held to a softer standard as they pollute much less.

if it breaks half the time as the big equipment its still far to much for a new vehicle.


Coop