4G in a 3S!

[Monochrome]

[quote=""familyMAN""]So let me get this straight. I get told how stupid of an idea it is to put a small engine into a big car because the lack of torque won't get it moving and now, my car shouldn't be compared to a 6g72 and should be compared to a tubed front half, big block hemi with a supercharger? Maybe I'm not understanding your point. Oh, and set up the race, I'm game. [/quote]

Building a fast car is stupid.

[familyMAN]

[quote=""stealthee""]I know when my friend with a pretty lightweight DSM made 699 AWHP he was in the low 9's. He made a few changes and last I knew had broke into a 8.9 or something.

I don't know for sure but I would bet his car is around 2500 lbs though. It is a "semi-famous" car that he bought off Curt Brown as a shell a few years back.

He was also auto and I think his 8.9 run was a 1.3 or 1.4 60'[/quote]

Sounds about right.

something to think about...Nelson's weight was right around that and ran 8.57 with a 6g74 and twin 4088's. There were multiple cars running 8.0's and better all weekend at the shootout near Nelson's weight.

[Jeff V.]

So let me get this straight. I get told how stupid of an idea it is to put a small engine into a big car because the lack of torque won't get it moving

No, taking the drivetrain out of a smaller, lighter car and putting it into a bigger car because you couldn't figure out how to make a 6G7 work is dumb. It's even dumber to make claims about how your car is better than the ones that kept the original engine. I'm sure you could find some high strung 1.8L Honda motor that'll make even more power. Big f'n deal. You mashed up a DSM and a 3S and created something that had the worst of both worlds.

Seriously...name one way this car is better than a GSX.

No I believe the logic is to swap in a motor that performs better but nice try.

Even though that motor was already available in a more effective package. Seriously...the time and money sunk into making the motor work in a different car could have been spent making a GSX faster.

[Monochrome]

[quote=""Jeff V.""]Even though that motor was already available in a more effective package. Seriously...the time and money sunk into making the motor work in a different car could have been spent making a GSX faster.[/quote]

Why put an LS into something other than a corvette? People who do are stupid right?

[J-Groove]

[quote=""Jeff V.""]
Seriously...name one way this car is better than a GSX.
[/quote]

The 3S is prettier and has more interior room than the Eclipse. :ick:

Also, the increased engine room has to make it easy to work on. In a DSM the engine bay is made for that engine, you have to take apart X and Z to get to Y, just like you have to with a 3S and the 6G7.

But with that smaller 4, you now have more room to work.
Less parts to buy to upgrade (ie 4 instead of 6)
Larger aftermarket support with lower prices
1 turbo to buy instead of 2 (or no custom work to go single as you have to on a 6G7)

I wouldn't do this, because I like the 6G72 and am still rocking the stock long block. And when it does go pop from me doing runway races, I'll have Ray do up a built 3.1

But to knock a guy for taking a proven path engine that is much more affordable to buy and mod and stick it into an awesome body such as the 3S. That is awesome, and it is performing, it is not hype, it is not talk about what he wants to do. It is a 9 second car that is competing reliably. That is AWESOME!

[Jeff V.]

Why put an LS into something other than a corvette? People who do are stupid right?

LS engines came in a lot more than just the Corvette, but that's besides the point.

What you should be asking is why someone would chose a 4 cylinder EcoTec when an LS is available and can be made to fit?

[Jeff V.]

Also, the increased engine room has to make it easy to work on.

Have you spent much time wrenching on a DSM? The engine bay isn't exactly cramped. Especially one that's had stuff like the AC and cruise removed.

But to knock a guy for taking a proven path engine that is much more affordable to buy and mod and stick it into an awesome body such as the 3S. That is awesome, and it is performing, it is not hype, it is not talk about what he wants to do. It is a 9 second car that is competing reliably. That is AWESOME!

And that's fine. But to go and knock guys like Trevor and Matt who actually took the time to figure out how to make the 6G7 work, is bullshit. You want to skip all that and just go build some catalog based DSM motor, go for it. It'll be fast. If all you want to do is go fast, then it's a dumb choice because the DSM exists and is cheap. I'll give him credit for creating new motor mounts, but there's nothing else about it that's innovative.

It should be compared to other DSMs because that's all it is now. A bigger, heavier, DSM.

[Silver]

[quote=""J-Groove""]The 3S is prettier and has more interior room than the Eclipse. :ick:

[/quote]

Thiiiiiiis.

[Jeff V.]

To be fair, his car on kill is only slightly slower than my Vette.

Which one could you go run an afternoon's errands in, in Texas heat in August?

How much more room does your car have to grow on power?

He's had to completely replace his entire drivetrain just to come close to where you're at with a bolt-on blower. How much did he have to hog out of that car to get down to the weight that yours started at?

[familyMAN]

Why are we comparing to a new corvette? It's a 24 year old Mitsubishi? That's like comparing the vette to a twin turbo Lambo and saying the vette is a bad idea because the Lambo is ultimately faster.

I wanted a DSM drivetrain in a better looking car. The reasons have been stated. Some of it was just because. So I built it. It was said originally how slow it would be because of a small engine in a big car. I have to admit that I'm proud that it's now solidly in the Top10 and isn't a gutted tim can.

I am not taking away from Adam or Trevor in any way!!. I regularly text and PM with Adam. Both of those guys inspired me in my build! I just used their cars as examples since they were also independent builders with a focus on drag racing and their cars were similar weight to mine.

My car works very well for what I do with it. Some drag racing, fun fab work, some street driving, local car shows, big awd burnouts, fairly reliable (it's still Mitsu!)

My time and money would certainly be better spent on another platform. Anybody with a 3S should say that. Realistically if it was about time and money we should all be putting more into better investments.

[Jeff V.]

It's your money, your car, and if you're happy with it, rock on.

I'm only taking issue with these people who think it's some kind of amazing new development or some creative solution. Fast DSMs have been done, and you intentionally handicapped yours in the name of style. It makes about as much sense to me as a stanced VW.

I'm not going to apologize for not being all up in your nuts about it like some people.

[mjannusch]

Great results, and props to sticking with your idea and following through on it.

For a drag car, there's parts of it that make sense to me. If you are really going all-out, replacing broken parts on the 3/S drivetrain can get old. The DSM guys have more stuff that just works and is proven. Not to mention a lot less expensive than parts in our world.

I can't even remember how many days I spent at the track with Mark Wendlandt helping him work through his various issues on the way to that 10.15 pass. He went through 15Gs, DR-800s, DR-900s, DR-1200s, maybe 3-4 engine rebuilds due to failed piston pins or bent rods or whatever, lots of tuning time on the AEM, etc.

There's something compelling about switching to a more proven and tried-and-true platform where you don't have to continually find weak spots while pursuing your goals.

[familyMAN]

Jeff, I certainly don't expect or even want nut swinging; however, I believe the results should not be demeaned. Currently tied for the quickest independent owner and that is with a 72mm turbo running similar boost as the 6g that has an 80mm turbo.

Matt, I've had my share of fixing weak spots. I don't have an unlimited budget so fix as things come up. For example welding my center diff after smoking spider gear shims. Upgrading to straight cut gears after busting a stock set. Safety wiring oil filters after losing my first built engine. Building a new intercooler when the cxracing 4" wasn't keeping temps in check. Upgrading turbo (and rebuilt head) after floating exhaust valves from back pressure on a turbo I was pushing too hard.

[Hans_GZP]

I think it's awesome results. And it has so much more potential. The 4G also has a lot more results in high power applications, so following someone else's path is also an option. The 6G always seems like it's trying to break new ground with some new dang fangled custom part. Not much stuff that isn't available for the 4G setups.

[familyMAN]

Mike, I'd run you, but not from a roll!